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According to the scripture, America is headed for physical destruction....

Tuesday, July 27, 2010

A Rebuttal To Atheists And Agnostics

Are Dinosaurs mentioned in the Sacred Scriptures?
Over the years, there have been many accusations leveled against Yahweh's Sacred Scriptures by Atheists and Agnostics... and yet, how much of these things are factually true? Rather than consulting error prone human priests, preachers, or clerics - shouldn't we be consulting the book, itself? Some of these often wrongly perpetrated, perpetuated, and lingering fallacies are:
  • The scriptures teach that, "the earth is flat."
  • The scriptures teach that, "the earth is the center of the universe."
  • The scriptures teach that, "dinosaurs never existed."
  • The scriptures teach that, "the universe is only 6000 years old."
  • Or that, "the scriptures contradict themselves in numerous textual locations."
And yet, like so many other unfounded allegations, these statements are all clearly refuted by actually reading the scriptures themselves and what is expressly written in them. For instance, the scriptures clearly describe the Earth as being: a spherical body, hanging in space, upon absolutely nothing at all. Moreover, this clearly expressed statement was thousands of years ahead of our eventual ability to scientifically verify it. They also mention that "The Third Heaven" is the center of the Universe, and that the earth is merely "God's Footstool" - whereupon He [metaphorically] stretches his legs. Apparently, the Atheists and Agnostics haven't honestly read the scriptures, before making these fairly ignorant statements.

As for dinosaurs not having previously existed - as mentioned in the scriptures - consider this passage from The Book Of Job. Notice that, Yahweh is speaking to Job - regarding something he obviously knows of very well:
  • "Can you draw out Leviathan with a hook, Or snare his tongue with a line which you lower? Can you put a reed through his nose, Or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he make many supplications to you? Will he speak softly to you? Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him as a servant forever? Will you play with him as a bird, Or will you leash him for your maidens? Will your companions make a banquet of him? Will they apportion him among the merchants? Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears? Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle - Never do it again! Indeed any hope of overcoming him is vain; Shall one not be overwhelmed at the sight of him? No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up. Who then is able to stand against Me? Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him? Everything under heaven is Mine. I will not conceal his limbs, His mighty power, or his graceful proportions. Who can remove his outer coat? Who can approach him with a double bridle? Who can open the doors of his face, With his terrible teeth all around? His rows of scales are his pride, Shut up tightly as with a seal; One is so near another That no air can come between them; They are joined one to another, They stick together and cannot be parted. His sneezings flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; Sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, As from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes out of his mouth. Strength dwells in his neck, And sorrow dances before him. The folds of his flesh are joined together; they are firm on him and cannot be moved. His heart is as hard as stone, Even as hard as the lower millstone. When he raises himself up, the mighty are afraid; Because of his crashings they are beside themselves. Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail. Nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, And bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; He laughs at the threat of javelins. His undersides are like sharp potsherds; He spreads pointed marks in the mire. He makes the deep boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a pot of ointment. He leaves a shining wake behind him; One would think that the deep had white hair. On the Earth there is nothing like him, Which is made without fear. He beholds every high thing; He is king over all the children of pride." - Job Chapter 41.
Job's human experience was a testimony to faithfulness....
Not only does this clearly describe a living Tyrannosaurus Rex, but it says that he could factually breath fire - like so many of the ancient mythologies have equally described these dragons as [quite literally] doing. It is also interesting to note, that - after having found an intact supply of genetic material - a team of scientists is even now attempting to bring these magnificent creatures back from their circumstantial extinction. Unlike the movie "Jurassic Park," however, they intend to utilize their proper avian cousins rather than genetically unrelated frogs. Considering this particular description, I personally wouldn't advise it... but then again, I purportedly believe in a book with no basis in fact - now, don't I?

Meanwhile, the scriptures clearly indicate that it is only humanity and the other inhabitants of Earth - which have existed less than 6000 years - for the heavens and angelic hosts were clearly indicated as having been created far in advance of the Earth and its attendant genetic biodiversity. Nor, does it give a time frame between these two highly significant events. Any errors, in this proper contextual understanding, stems from the erroneous teachings of ignorant men and not the scriptures themselves. So far, the scriptures have predated man's scientific understandings of the universe around him - in almost every conceivable way possible.

For instance, those scripturally declared "Uncountable Stars In The Heavens" are still waiting to be yet counted in the age of Hubble and Radio Telescopes... Petrified Trees are distinctly found sticking through multiple layers of rock - which were supposedly created by dust set down over hundreds of thousands of years - rather than the rapidly forming sedimentary layers caused by a worldwide flood... and the scriptures factually described certain types of dinosaurs - long before anyone had ever found a solitary skeletal bone of this type. Meanwhile, of course, there is "The Modern Unifying Theory Of Physics" to consider... and you're [honestly] gonna have lots of fun, with that one!


  1. I address this as well

    Feel free to read...

  2. You bring up some very good points but I have a few I would like to bring up in response as well.

    You should not have included your last bullet point since you did not address it as a separate issue from the others.

    As for using mythology as a backup to the scriptures, while it lends credence to a more widespread usage of fire breathing dragons in literature, it does not really add any credibility to the argument.

    One can ask, did ancient man only write of fact or could people back then also have had a taste for exaggeration and fiction much like modern man? And then how fallible is it to try and determine what might be fact and what might be fiction? It is a recognized fact that eye witness accounts are mostly wildly inaccurate and prone to bias.

    And the fact is, almost every religious person who has ever lived has relied upon people they believe are knowledgeable in the field to present religious doctrine to them. And they rely upon translations. I admit that I always have (I know no language other than American English and some Latin). What percentage of Christians would you say have read the original scriptures without translation? Yet you dismiss priests, preachers and clerics as if they were a bunch of bumbling idiots.

    Let's face it - regardless of what the subject is and what side they fall upon, people will believe what they want to even when faced with incontrovertible proof to the contrary.

    And if they have to skew the facts or make things up or conceal things to add credence to their views then they will do so without hesitation.

    I believe arguing with atheists over the existence of God is just a waste of time since even if confronted by God himself, they would refuse to believe it.

    Finally, I am wondering what source you are using when you "go straight to the scriptures themselves" and ask if you are, in fact, relying upon someone else's translation, and therefore interpretation?

  3. The last issue was addressed throughout the entire thread. The scriptures do not contradict themselves, since they "are not of any private interpretation, but rather holy men of Yahweh spake as His Spirit moved them" - 2 Peter 1:20; and this entire posting stands as an example of this Biblical Truth.

    Moreover, that "Mythology" of which you speak is the canonical Book of Job - accepted as authoritative by both Jews and Christians alike. The description is definitively a Dinosaur - living in the time of men - which apparently breaths fire. Apparently, our scientists don't know as much about these creatures yet - as the scriptures themselves!

    Interestingly enough, this positive Dinosaur description predated any scientific discovery of their fossils by several thousands of years... as did the biblical accounting of the Earth being suspended upon nothing in space, and the scientifically verifiable inability to count the number of our stars - which at that time, stood at 9,009 being visible to the naked human eye.

    As far as the legend and lore of over 40 separate cultures - from Ancient Babylon, to the Sun Worshiping Aztecs, and even the Dynastic Chinese - this was merely pointed out as a non-scientific side note. As we all know, however, all such legends have at least some of their basis in fact. Moreover, the fact that so many different and divergent cultures share these beliefs - in such significant and quite honestly consistent detail - lends further credence to this biblical evidence, as only recently verified by factual science.

    Although some semantical differences have occurred in the various translation of the sacred scriptures - due to intentionally subtle manipulations, individually preferred textual flow, and even differences inherent to specific languages - they are still remarkably consistent throughout the last 3400 years. We know this, thanks to comparison to "The Dead Sea Scrolls" - which have been verified both scientifically and through secular history to that specified time period.

    Both archaeological translation and computer analysis find no significant differences to our modern day texts - other than the removal of Yahweh's personal name which had been previously included over 8000 times in the Old Testament Scriptures

  4. The Bible was not given by Yahweh as a speculative work to be interpreted by charismatic and humanly educated scholars. It was intended for use by spiritually led individuals, who might honestly seek to inquire "In Spirit And Truth" directly from Him!

    "And He said, 'Go, and tell this people: Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive. Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and return and be healed." - Isaiah 6:9-10.

    "And He said, 'To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that: Seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand." - Luke 8:10.

    Perhaps, you should read the parable of the sower in the following scriptural passage of Luke 8:11-15... It might assist you on your way?

  5. Although the purpose of the scriptures wasn't primarily one of: archaeology, science, history, economics, politics, or administrative law - all of these subjects are factually breached from within their numerous pages... and in every solitary case, these biblical: philosophies, principles, and answers are 100 percent correct - as time has consistently born out!

    Meanwhile, unbelieving and/or ignorant [self-professed] clerics have frequently either: spoken things that weren't there, contradicted that which was, or misapplied what they could factually discern themselves. And yet, the majority of these frequent indiscretions can be easily rebutted by people who will open their own copy of the book - with heartfelt sincerity.

    As the scriptures state: "Ask and it shall be given unto you, Seek and you shall find, Knock and it shall be opened unto you." However, Yahweh doesn't tell you to ask others, or to seek it out under every rock, spreading bush, and tree... and He certainly isn't saying, for us, to knock on every other person's door - except His own!

    In fact, according to the scriptures, spreading secondhand knowledge and/or hurtful hearsay is a grievous sin - to be fully equated with: Murder, Lying, and Stealing. How much more so, then, when the subject of such dishonest hearsay is Yahweh Himself?

  6. I believe you misunderstood my comments:

    1. I did not say the last bullet point was not addressed within the other points you espoused upon, only that it did not merit a separate bullet point since it was not dealt with separately.

    2. You respond to another point I mention with, "Moreover, that "Mythology" of which you speak is the canonical Book of Job". I did not refer to any scripture as mythology. I referred only to the mythologies YOU mentioned in this post - "like so many of the ancient mythologies have equally described these dragons" The book of Job is not the "many mythologies" you were referring to that you felt supported the scriptures. I merely pointed out that mythologies may be fiction (hence the root "myth")and can not be assumed to be factual. That was my only point. I do see your point that if something is widely written about then one might assume it to be because it has some basis in fact.

    3. As for the "unbelieving and/or ignorant [self-professed] clerics" issue, I agree that many have fallen into that category.

    As I stated, I thought you brought up some good points and I did not necessarily disagree with you on your post (you call it a thread and I guess with all your subsequent comments it did, in fact, become one). But you came back in your comments as if I had disagreed, which leads me to believe you are at least somewhat blinded by an overly adversarial attitude. Do you need a napkin sir? - To wipe that egg off your face?

  7. Everything considered, it is very nice of you to offer me that napkin! lol Thanks. ;0)

    However, these "Cultural Mythologies" - to which archaeologists confer the name "Oral Traditions" - have actually fared quite well under archaeological scrutiny over the last two centuries. In some cases, entire: cities, kingdoms, and cultures have been recently discovered, verified, and even irrefutably proven - thanks to many of these purportedly mythological tales. In fact, when I stated that: "All such legends have some form of basis in fact," I was actually quoting an archaeologist.

    In any case, I stand corrected.

  8. I am wondering in what version of the Bible and what passage you found the quote "a spherical body, hanging in space, upon absolutely nothing at all".

    From my [limited] memory, the Bible does not mention whether the Earth is a sphere or not.

  9. Actually these three Biblically stated concepts are from two different different passages. They should have been more properly stated as: "A Globe, or Ball" and "Hanging In Space, Upon Nothing At All."

    The Globe or Ball scriptural reference comes from The Book of Enoch - which isn't included in the Christian Canonical Scriptures - for reasons which I haven't got the space to explain in this comment space... and the part regarding Earth hanging in space "upon nothing at all" is from Job chapter 26 verse 7.

    Meanwhile, as I am sure you are aware, the majority of humanity still believed that the supposedly Flat Earth was held upon the shoulders of Atlas - who stood atop the back of a turtle - until fairly recently in relativistic historical terms.

    The fact that The Roman Catholic Church also attempted to propagate and maintain such blatant non-scriptural myths - while supposedly being God's own infallible organization upon Earth - should open numerous spiritual eyes to her "Cup filled with abominations" nature. However, sad to say, it probably won't....

  10. Although The Bible isn't a book of science per se, it includes a great deal of scientific content within its passages - for those who will honestly look for it. The problem that many clerics get into is that will often teach what they personally think, rather than searching the scriptures first to see what is factually says, or remaining silent when it has nothing to honestly say.

  11. I believe you lose credibility when you choose to grossly over generalize what others believe in order to support your beliefs. As for the majority of humanity believing in Atlas holding the flat earth - are you serious? And here I always thought he was holding a globe... The ancient Greeks believed the earth to be a sphere, based upon scientific study, around 500 to 600 BC. Of course, like you said, [some in] the Roman Catholic church did a good job of eradicating that scientific knowledge and perpetuating lies in its place.

    Job 26:7 does not say the earth is a sphere. You say the book of Enoch does, but that is not in the Bible. In fact, the Bible does not support an argument for or against the earth being a sphere from what I've seen.

    I think in regards to your points of this post, most people are intelligent enough to attribute those to the church and not the Bible. Admittedly, just as the credibility of doctors and medicine, and politicians and government are linked, so too is that of priests and the Bible. Even so, I think you make much ado of nothing.

  12. Your analogy falls flat.... The doctors and medicine, yes... politicians and government, that too... but not priests and the Bible. Why? Because, The Bible is to Judeo-Christian Theology what the Constitution is to both: politicians and their governments. The Bible is the foundational document of these two religious faiths. You are once again comparing apples and grapefruit!

    Just as The Constitution points out the errors of our politicians and governments, The Bible points out the errors of those priests and their churches. Just as the Constitution cannot be impugned by the various unlawful acts of our politicians, the non-scriptural assumptions of those priests cannot be also cast against the scriptures as well. The scriptures are what they are and state what they state!

  13. You are right, I seem to have made grapple fruits! A correct analogy would've said priests and Christianity.


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